Q&A With Henry Johnston – Author of We Who Decide
When artificial intelligence spoke to Henry Johnston, author of We Who Decide…
We Who Decide
We Who Decide is a story of deceit, lies, and ambiguity. Shoshanna Liebler, an 18-year-old European Jewess, on the eve of the Anschluss of 1938, flees Austria, for Australia. A high-fashion designer, known as ZaSu, collaborates with her parents and brother to rebrand the House of Liebler with a portfolio of affordable creations for Europe’s leading fashion houses.
Q&A
Q. Your protagonist, ZaSu Liebler, navigates an incredibly complex journey of identity and survival. What inspired you to create a character who must strategically obscure her Jewish heritage, sexuality, and personal history in post-war Australia?
Answer. When the Tampa Incident unfolded in late August 2001, the then prime minister John Howard said, and I quote, ‘We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come’ . As an immigrant myself I wanted to explore the tradition of antipathy toward migrants. And as a writer I needed a subject who would capture the imagination of my readers. I wanted to turn the issue of gender on its head and chose a female heroine. ZaSu came into being after a lot of thinking during the Covid lockdown period.
Q. The novel seems to explore themes of reinvention and adaptation. How did the historical context of European Jewish refugees in the late 1930s inform ZaSu’s character development?
Answer. The 1985 Australian film the Dunera Boys proved a genuine inspiration for segments of my book. The experience of those who sailed aboard the ship Dunera, is celebrated in certain chapters. Though refugees and internees, the so called Dunera Boys, and women contributed so much to the life and culture of a future Australia, Many of course were Jewish,.
Q. The family business of designing military and police uniforms provides a fascinating backdrop. Could you discuss how this historical detail influenced the narrative’s exploration of identity and transformation?
Answer. This aspect of the book evolved from following a long visit to Austria in 2014. The year marked the 100thanniversary of the outbreak of World War 1. Though it is largely ignored by English historians, what became a global conflict, began, and was fought largely within the boundaries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. By 1914 this empire was more fiction than reality, this national yearning for empire was celebrated in a bewildering array of bombastic military uniforms, which are described in the book. Someone had to make these uniforms, and the Liebler family, obliged
Q. ZaSu’s journey begins with her detention in Long Bay prison – an unusual and provocative narrative choice. What symbolic or narrative purpose did you intend with this initial imprisonment?
Answer. My life as a legal immigrant began in the Villawood Detention Centre in the late 1950s. Fortunately I had my family, but the trauma of that experience still lingers in my memory. Imagine how a young woman must have felt, especially after losing touch with her trusted assistant? As a writer this conundrum provided a powerful insight into the beginning of a new life for so many New Australians.
Q. The book’s description suggests a multilayered narrative of deceit and ambiguity. How did you balance revealing ZaSu’s inner truth while maintaining the novel’s sense of mystery?
Answer. I achieve a sense of mystery by leading the reader down several blind alleys. For instance her growing realisation that the glitz and glamour of her midlife career is a charade. As she grows older, family, becomes her inner truth, the only truth in fact. And though she did not know it at the time, once she boarded the ship, on the eve of Anschluss, she would never see her family again. This too, is true of so many immigrants.
Q. Entrepreneurial dynamics play a significant role, with Ashton Frost financing ZaSu’s journey. How do you see the relationship between economic opportunity and personal reinvention in the novel?
Answer. The character Ashton Frost symbolises a young, dynamic Australia, a nation of promise, which provides a secure home to millions of people. Almost all, who come to Australia, want to make a better life for themselves, and Ashton’s zeal typifies the best Australia offers its citizens. We are at heart, a creative nation, and my novel celebrates creativity.
Q. Fashion is more than just a profession in this novel – it seems to be a metaphorical language of transformation. Could you elaborate on how haute couture represents ZaSu’s personal and cultural negotiations?
Answer. Those who develop and create haute couture, are at heart, artistic. ZaSu is nurtured by a family and a society which celebrates culture rather than criticise and ridicule its outcome. But Australia at the time the novel is set, was hard edged and suspicious, and demanded egalitarianism as a type of cultural leveller. The metaphorical meeting of ZaSu and a trade union official, typifies this conundrum. And now almost a century on from the novel’s setting, we enjoy the outpouring of a nation which is the envy of the world. Caution. The fashion choices of Australian tourists, in, let’s say, Bali, leaves a lot to be desired.
Q. The novel touches on the complex experience of Jewish refugees in Australia during a conservative post-war period. What historical research informed your portrayal of this challenging cultural landscape?
Answer The chapter titled Gerontius tackles this issue head on. At its heart is the portrayal of a conservative Protestant who, as it turns out, is secretly married to a Catholic woman. Known as a ‘mixed marriage’ at the time, this type of liaison was anathema. Similarly Australia was suspicious of Jewish people, but by good fortune and good luck, we embrace the wisdom, humour and tenacity of the Jewish population who contribute so much to the life of our nation. Like the Dream of Gerontius, we all struggle with our demons, but equally we hope and aspire for the ascendancy of our better angels.
Q. ZaSu’s quest to uncover her family’s fate suggests deeper themes of displacement and loss. How did you approach representing the intergenerational trauma of the Holocaust in your narrative?
Answer The penultimate chapter, The Interpretation of nightmares, also the book’s subtitle, tackles trauma. In ZaSu’s case, trauma is the lifelong absence from the reality of the hell that befell Europe during the war years. She strikes out at what she sees as a continuation of her nightmares, which, even though she did not experience its horror directly, haunted her dreams. Sigmund Freud’s book, The Interpretation of Dreams, revolutionised, psychology. And like it or not, we are all influenced by Id, Ego and Super Ego
Q. The title We Who Decide seems deeply philosophical. Could you discuss how choice, agency, and personal determination function as central themes in the novel?
Answer At the time the novel is set, women remained largely invisible in society, academia, in art, in decision making. But ZaSu breaks the mould. She is her own woman, and an inspiration to those who know her. She is, without realising it, a talented and determined innovator, capable of achieving as much as anyone. And yet even to this day, we beat, murder and defile so many women. Imagine what we would achieve if we had more ZaSu’s in the collective life of our nation? And yet it is men who overwhelmingly decide the fate of women. If I persuade just one reader to think about this, then I have achieved something worthwhile with this book.
